The position of Ifa on homosexuality/lesbianism
A lot had been written and said about the position of same gender lovers in Ifa religion . Some say that Ifa is sent on this practice, other say that Ifa is against it, while yet others say categorically that Ifa supports the practice.
For the avoidance of doubt, Ifa states three stanzas to make the position of Ifa clear on this controversial issue.
First is ofun-irete where ifa says :
-It is better for a man to make love to a woman and vice versa, it is more enjoyable.
-It is better for a man to make love to a woman and vice versa, it is more enjoyable.
-Same sex love making can only lead to diseases and frustrations.
- It is the only way child bearing can take place
This equally means that Olodumare, whose speech is ifa deliberately made heterosexual live making pleasurable in order to remove inhibitions from the path of making babies. The plan of Olodumare is for human beings to mutiny In this world. Same sex relationship are to hinder the multiplication of human race.
Furthermore in a stanza of iwori -odi Ifa says:
- Anyone casting sheep glance at another person of the same sex can never be regarded a good awo. For such a person to look at the genitals of another person of the same sex is even worse.
- Engaging in same sex love making is an exercise in futility.
The implication of this is that anyone practicing homosexuality or lesbianism, if an Iyanifa, Iyalorisa, Babalawo or Babalorisa is not regarded to be a decent or good person or practitioner. Why then anyone who truly believes in Olodumare and the divinities engage in an exercise in futility?
We are all followers of the divinities. We are in a privilege position that is certainly the envy of others, with that position comes great responsibility. We follow the footsteps of the divinities. If this is true, which it is, then who among the divinities practice same gender love when they were on earth? Which part of their love lives are we emulating which slightly suggested same sex relationship? None!!!
Some lesbians and homosexual class that they had told their Oluwo in Yorubaland and that their Oluwo told them that Ifa is silent on the issue. I really doubt if there is such a babalawo who will make such statement anywhere.
If there is however, we use this medium other than Ifa to stop deceiving people by giving them false hope.
Lesbians and homosexuals have no place in traditional Ifa!. ..
Aboru Aboye
Chief Solagbade Popoola.
Aboru Aboye
Chief Solagbade Popoola.
Source: Elerii ipin magazine (2006 edition).
Chief Solagbade Poopola may be well verses in Ifa but perhaps may require some lessons or education in regards to human sexuality. Ifa, the data base of universal knowledge, holds explanation for all things except when it doesn't. Odu Ofun clearly highlights the inexplicable and mysterious life that exist despite anyone's understanding. Life that exist with purpose.
ReplyDeleteIf creation happened and created heterosexual then that same creative power created homosexuality,and therefore with purpose.
The issue here is relative application of odu to literal vs allegorical nature.
Both odu speaks of futility in behavior that doesn't promote or incur creation.
To take it so literally would mean that men born sterile and women born barren are also not in accordance with Ifa and therefore should also not form living intimate relationships and engage in interiors.
We then have a responsibility as awo/olorisa to think outside the box and speak to the root cause of such verses.
Are we engaging in futile behavior? Does are choices lead to partnerships that remain stagnant and unproductive?
This would be the metaphysical principle Ifa is mentioning in regards to what we as humans/ Eniyan must be aware of to advance in our lives.
Homosexuality is not new, or a choice. If heterosexuality is for procreation which can lead to over population maybe homosexuality is the answer to bring balance. Also while on the subject many homosexual couples still have children with the oppisite sex through various means. They also adopt the children many heterosexuals leave behind.
Anyone who is educated and well traveled having experienced the world and actually spoke with homosexual people extensively, would know how to view sexuality. The psychology of sexuality and the biology of what makes humans do, act, function ect...
Many men and women due to fear will hide their desire for other same gender peers. This being said they are assumed heterosexual by their community. Many of these people have went before ifa and have passed into the ranks of working Awo Ifa. This has caused much controversy in the cyber and physical world.. but ask yourself this..
How could a homosexual person who perhaps never acted on their homosexual desires (or maybe have in secret) have sat before Orunmila, elere ipin and witness to all creation and destiny and have gotten passed through to Ifa without any odu or objection from orisa?
This would lead me to believe the actual issue is with man and not orisa. Which should ethically lead to the question of, "is this belief homosexuality has no place in Ifa actually valid and relevant? "
I ask those who blindly follow strong leaders with strong voices start asking themselves strong questions and truly examine their beliefs on this matter and many others. If odu Ifa is the living breathing amalgamation of life and death information I believe it to be then surely it has room for two consenting adults who love each other.
Nailed it.
DeleteChief Solagbade Poopola may be well verses in Ifa but perhaps may require some lessons or education in regards to human sexuality. Ifa, the data base of universal knowledge, holds explanation for all things except when it doesn't. Odu Ofun clearly highlights the inexplicable and mysterious life that exist despite anyone's understanding. Life that exist with purpose.
ReplyDeleteIf creation happened and created heterosexual then that same creative power created homosexuality,and therefore with purpose.
The issue here is relative application of odu to literal vs allegorical nature.
Both odu speaks of futility in behavior that doesn't promote or incur creation.
To take it so literally would mean that men born sterile and women born barren are also not in accordance with Ifa and therefore should also not form living intimate relationships and engage in interiors.
We then have a responsibility as awo/olorisa to think outside the box and speak to the root cause of such verses.
Are we engaging in futile behavior? Does are choices lead to partnerships that remain stagnant and unproductive?
This would be the metaphysical principle Ifa is mentioning in regards to what we as humans/ Eniyan must be aware of to advance in our lives.
Homosexuality is not new, or a choice. If heterosexuality is for procreation which can lead to over population maybe homosexuality is the answer to bring balance. Also while on the subject many homosexual couples still have children with the oppisite sex through various means. They also adopt the children many heterosexuals leave behind.
Anyone who is educated and well traveled having experienced the world and actually spoke with homosexual people extensively, would know how to view sexuality. The psychology of sexuality and the biology of what makes humans do, act, function ect...
Many men and women due to fear will hide their desire for other same gender peers. This being said they are assumed heterosexual by their community. Many of these people have went before ifa and have passed into the ranks of working Awo Ifa. This has caused much controversy in the cyber and physical world.. but ask yourself this..
How could a homosexual person who perhaps never acted on their homosexual desires (or maybe have in secret) have sat before Orunmila, elere ipin and witness to all creation and destiny and have gotten passed through to Ifa without any odu or objection from orisa?
This would lead me to believe the actual issue is with man and not orisa. Which should ethically lead to the question of, "is this belief homosexuality has no place in Ifa actually valid and relevant? "
I ask those who blindly follow strong leaders with strong voices start asking themselves strong questions and truly examine their beliefs on this matter and many others. If odu Ifa is the living breathing amalgamation of life and death information I believe it to be then surely it has room for two consenting adults who love each other.
I believe the path of Ifa sees this as Dr. Wilhelm Reich did, as a psycholgical disorder than can be cured. The ideal relationship is heterosexual family. Do you realize that when a woman kisses a man, her brain responds in a way as if to prepare for mating. Hormones ard released. The science is in.
DeleteI believe the path of Ifa sees this as Dr. Wilhelm Reich did, as a psycholgical disorder than can be cured. The ideal relationship is heterosexual family. Do you realize that when a woman kisses a man, her brain responds in a way as if to prepare for mating. Hormones ard released. The science is in.
DeleteJust like it does when a woman kisses a woman. Stupid.
DeleteThe Awise Agbaye himself said it's none of his business if a priest is gay or lesbian. What matters is character. If an awo Ifa is heterosexual and is a liar, misrepresents himself, is a violent cheater the other awo Ifa close ranks to protect their brother! And then worry that loving same gender relationships are a big problem? ha!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteYou are twisting the Awise Agbaye's words. He says one cannot tell if they are lying or not.
DeleteAshe O! We didn't even have homosexuality with the Yoruba people til the slavers came.
ReplyDeleteLies. Do your research. Have you heard of Logunede, or properly "Lógun-ẹ̀dẹ"?
DeleteAboru aboye abosise Baba. I give thanks for shedding light on this highly debated topic. Maferefun Orunmila. The Odus of Ifa are without questionings. Point blank.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the purpose of practicing homosexuality? What is the purpose of practicing heterosexuality? If a heterosexual person cannot bare children what would be their purpose?
ReplyDeleteThere seem to be a lot of facts over looked in this concept. According to psychology homosexuality can not be cured, as it is not a psychological state. The gene the causes homosexuality has been discovered (manipulated, inhibited and reintroduced for proof of behavioral change) in 3 animal species, to date. Also homosexuality has been observed in almost every animal species, across the globe. Galileo Galilie notated bisexual and homosexual behaviors among African mountain goat in 1632. This is not new concept.
ReplyDeleteI would also like to point out that there are no rules for a group of people in IFA. Rules and prohibitions are individual. It seems that any ODU that one could interpret that a man is only for a woman, would see that, that ODU was meant for the person receiving the ODU and most likely was speaking to the person to be faithful.
For those who think that the colonials brought homosexuality with them, please understand that the anti-sodomy laws are often referred to as "Colonial Era-Laws". Why? Because these laws were put into place by the colonials, to inhibit or cease a behavior that had already been occurring widely within the controlled population. Simply put, if there were no African homosexuals, this law would've never been been enacted in Africa.
As far as population, being fruitful is indeed important and while we can not have biological children within our relationships, population levels are not a problem in this time. Also, commonly homosexuals adopt children that have been abandoned, abused, sold or lost (by death) by heterosexual couples. Statistics actually show that our children fare very well in our families. This is a rather obvious reason, as, many times pregnancies happen inopportunely and the guarantee of a homosexual family is that our children were always wanted, planned for and sacrifice was given, just to have them.
I speak from experience in saying that the Orishas and Egungun have always given me their blessing and even gave me there blessing to marry, my soon to be husband. As for the question of our actions being futile. Well, there are many sides to this. One distinction that humans often make, is that only human mate for pleasure. Only animals mate for reproductive need. In this I am sure the ending of both homosexual and heterosexual intercourse are satisfying to their end. Ask anyone of either orientation and they will tell you...it was not futile at all. I can also answer as an expert that our love making was absolutely designed for pleasure as well, as you will note that the organ that allows for sexual stimulation for a man is not in the phallic protuberance, but in the anus. Likewise for women, the organ that allows for sexual stimulation in a woman is not inside of the lady parts (where we are taught a protuberance was meant to enter for pleasure), but a tad outside of this part. Biology is quite simple and easy to see. We also live very happy and productive lives (When not being harassed, beaten, murdered or executed). We have given much to every society and have been great producers, philosophers, scientists, soldiers/warriors, friends, parents, neighbors and community leaders.
Also, I keep seeing this misguided term of PRACTICING homosexuality. We do not practice. Homosexuality is not spell or ritual. We are. Gay is what I am, not what I do. I don't live a heterosexual caricature and practice homosexuality on the side. I am not a homosexual only when in the throws of passion. I am a homosexual all of the time. I am Gay and I live and love in accordance with my nature. If lying is a detriment in the eyes of IFA, then I can not live a lie to appease someone else's ignorant belief. That would be a lie and a betrayal of my own soul.
Just a few FACTS to help those who ARE NOT nor have ever been, understand those that ARE and always will be.
How do I contact you?
DeleteThanks for this. I am an omo Obatala as well soon to be initiated in FA. I have received my hand of IFA, warriors, ide and ileke, and personal Odu. The name given is Ifabukunmi. My Huono surprised me by saying I could have a female partner. I thought I would be forced to have once again feel coercion and shame for something I cannot change and which can be seen throughout nature. Before I knew I was destined for FA, I always prayed even as a Christian to my heavenly saintly ancestors. I asked my closest saintly ancestors to forgive me and they told me they do not judge me but love me. That I should accept myself. When I learn Vi or Obi, I was surprised my ancestors once again said they did not hate me or feel shame of me being gay. Indeed, I am a healer and diviner destined to prescribe healing to many and destined to be an Iyanifa. I have abstained from all sexual activity with anyone until FA says that the person I like is permitted by FA. I am glad my Huono has accepted me and has helped me on my journey. I hope people see my wisdom from FA and more importantly my overall character for I am a peaceful and sweetheart individual. It would be foolish to judge me just because of something seen in nature. As long as I continue to protect and nurture the future generations, the community, and my future nieces and nephews, I will be seems more as a spiritual Mother of many. I may even have children with a female partner and they will learn FA and be more loving and compassionate to all people. Hating homosexuals is an imbalance as well. Harmonious balanced character and j conditional healing love is my path
DeleteSame Annoymous person. I meant unconditional healing love and harmonious balance.
DeleteBe blessed and I hope you are well.
-Ifabukunmi
Sir, I really appreciate your view as regard this controversial post. I must indeed say that, you have no doubt provided facts that seem blur before the eyes of those against.
ReplyDeleteJust as it written in the post, it was a view and perception of a prolific babalawo and this view was made in 2006.
This is to tell you that a lot have evolve since then, knowledge has been added over knowledge, some have change their perception and some have not. Learning in Ifa is dynamic and that is how it will remain years to come.
I believe we are not to make any judgment regarding our sexuality preference in conjunction to Ifa/Orisa religion as all judgments belong to the Supreme Being above.
As Ifa put it in one of his Verses that, “we all shall be judged based on our deeds” that I will always stand with sir. Olodumare is the only one who can differentiate from what is wrong to the latter as regard our character.
Whether you are homosexual or heterosexual, our deeds in general dealings and devotions to spirituality is what will take us all to the promised Ogba itero (Garden of Peace) or what will denfranchise us from it.
Everyone has his or her own view on this issue respectively and every of it have been educative and also appreciated.
Thank you sir for this educative view.
Thanks for mentioning the date. Look above for my comment to a fellow omo Obatala who like me is same-gender loving. I am glad FA and IFA overall is changing perspectives. It is important because we are all growing in wisdom, character, and in our destinies. My comment above basically says my ancestors never hated me nor felt shame of me. It is the one that ends with my path is harmonious balance and unconditional healing love. May Olodumare, Orunmila, and FA show you infinite favor.
DeleteLove,
Ifabukunmi
This was very interesting to read
ReplyDelete